MP,

The forging process in and of itself does not cause the loss of distance. Two factors that can reduce distance with a forged club due to its inherent design is how strong or weak are the lofts of the set. Many club manufactures today, trying a bit of gamesmanship have been playing games with the lofting of the iron sets. One big name major manufacturer has a 6 iron loft in its set that used to be the loft of a 4 iron just a few years ago. It's a marketing ploy. So when you compare clubs you need to take into account the lofts of the clubs when making any type of performance comparison.

Another reason that you may lose distance with a forged iron club is the design of the club design. If it is a conventional design then you need to be a very skilled golfer so that you can consistently hit the sweet spot in order to get consistent distance control with the club. If you are a little off with your strike you can easily lose 10 or more yards distance on a misthit. So solid strikes are a key element in getting this club to perform well. They are considered not very forgiving. Titleist has decided to take the added benefit of a forged club, which is primarily club feel transmitted back to ones hands, and added an additional maching process which they use to place tungsten weights in the toe and heel of the clubhead. To prevent the club from hitting the ball to high they have stengthened the lofts. So now you have a forged club which has the feel of a conventional forged head but adds weight low for stability and performance on slight mishit shots. Additionally the ball now will go much further due to the added weight and stronger lofts. And if that isn't enought they makes this club one of most beautiful golf clubs you will ever see. This is the genesis of the 716 T-MB forged iron club set and these clubs are long. So getting back to your question about losing distance with a forged club, the answer is it depends on the club head design and the skill of the golfer. Hope you are not totally confused and hope this addresses your question satisfactorily.

Best Wishes,

DV

Hi MP, ... well, it seems that conventional thought is that the forged clubs do give up a little bit of distance to well designed/manufactured cast clubs. The thought is that the softer forged irons do not produce as much distance as the cast irons.

Personally, I think it would be very interesting if there was a test comparison between forged and cast irons (of the same design club so that the metals used were the only variable). There may exist some analysis comparing a forged iron vs. a cast iron (but of different models and styles).

DV, the tungsten weight in both the CB and MB clubs is not machined in but is done in a really interesting proprietary co-forging.

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Do you know anything more about the manufacturing process in producing this clubhead? I'm not asking to give away trade secrets but as an engineer it would pique my interest to learn more how this awesome club is being manufactured.

DV

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I was able to find some limited info regarding the "advance co-forging" of Titleist 716 irons. While details are not provided regarding the forging of the tungsten inserts, the added tungsten weights are just manufactured inserts that must require some additional manufacturing process to produce. They are insert into a stainless steel frame (presumably some drill work is performed to make the hole) and there is also a face plate (club face) that is some how attached (laser welding?) to the this frame. All this additional mechanical machining and assembly certainly adds to the costs, as compared with a convential clubhead, and explains why these clubs costs a little more. Do you have additional details you can share?

DV

Hi DV --- the T-MB's are not forged but rather are cast as are the Vokey wedges. The same is true also of the AP1 irons whereas the AP2's, CB and MBs are all forged clubs.

Dino,

I learned that the T-MB clubhead has a metal frame and that is a stainless steel and is cast. I have been unable to determine though if the actual faceplate that is attached to this frame and becomes the actual clubhead face is forged. Would you know?

I am aware of the AP1, AP2, CB, and MB.

DV

Hi DV ... the feedback I received from one of our Titleist guys was that the entire T-MB is cast (stainless steel portion of the club). I'm not sure though about the tungsten sole.

When I demo'd the T-MBs, I could not feel a significant difference in the feel with them vs. my regular AP2 irons ... but of course, all we have here in Canada for demo purposes and subsequent purchase are the long irons (2-5 only). I quite liked the T-MB's ...and I just was amazed at the fantastic feeling of the new 716 MB's as well ...the feeling of a nicely or even a moderately well struck ball on the MB's was sublime! :-)

I recently went to a hybrid set of T-MB's (2-5) and CB's (6-P). I have played forged blades since I took up golf 30+ years ago. The feel of the T-MB's is very similar to the CB's on well struck shots, and the mishits provide almost as much feedback as the forged iron. Because they launch higher due to the lower CG, the T-MB's are 1 degree stronger than a standard Titleist loft of the MB's or CB's. in order to get my gapping consistent, I had my CB's bent 1 degree stronger to maintain a 4 degree difference between the 5 iron and 6 iron. If left as is, it would have been a 5 degree difference between those two clubs. SO far, I am extremely happy with both types of irons.

Hi DV ... the feedback I received from one of our Titleist guys was that the entire T-MB is cast (stainless steel portion of the club). I'm not sure though about the tungsten sole.

It apparently comes with a slightly thinner clubface for better ball speed while the tungsten soles assist with the "MOI" to launch the ball more readily.

When I demo'd the T-MBs, I could not feel a significant difference in the feel with them vs. my regular AP2 irons ... but of course, all we have here in Canada for demo purposes and subsequent purchase are the long irons (2-5 only). I quite liked the T-MB's ...and I just was amazed at the fantastic feeling of the new 716 MB's as well ...the feeling of a nicely or even a moderately well struck ball on the MB's was sublime! :-)

Dino. I too liked all the Titleist clubs and I could have easily chosen any of their clubs and would have been very pleased purchasing any one of them. The clincher though for me was the AP1s were longer and they performed better from the rough than the other clubs did. I got to try all these clubs from the rough when I was fitted.

In regards to the T-MB, Titleist has extensively marketed the T-MB as being manufactured using a new "advanced co-forging" process. I don't think they are forging theTungsten which is used to add weight. They also claim that the underlying frame is cast stainless steel. So the question remains then, What exactly is forged in this club using this new process? The only other component that makes up this club is the clubface plate which is probably welded to the stainless steel frame with a laser welding technique I would guess. I could not find any additional manufacturing info about this club. Sure is a well built, attractive club.

DV

Hi DV -- I am impressed that you were able to demo test the clubs from the rough during your fitting! And, here I thought that I was doing well to just test the clubs from the turf and be supported with the Trackman data.

In regards to your comment:

"In regards to the T-MB, Titleist has extensively marketed the T-MB as being manufactured using a new "advanced co-forging" process"

I'm afraid that I cannot ever recall that the T-MBs were "co-forged" -- do you recall where you came across that information? I know that they use the term "co-forged" n regards to the AP2 irons.

The crafting of the T-MBs was a topic of discussion on TT - Canada site last season when the clubs rolled out. It led to some discussion about whether they (T-MBs) were forged, cast, etc. It was then that we learned that they were cast stainless steel.

Regardless, they are a great club IMHO ... as were the rest of the line up from AP1 through to the CB's and MB's.